We're joined by poet Celeste Doaks, whose most recent book, American Herstory, focuses on the experience of former first lady Michelle Obama's years in the White House, including the art and decor choices she made while living there. So it's fitting that Celeste had us read an essay by art historian Richard Powell about the official Obama portraits, which in many ways broke with established tradition for presidential portraiture.

We talk about the relationship between writing and visual art, how to use art in a creative writing classroom, and the gender and racial politics of portraiture, among other subjects. Plus we close out the episode with Celeste reading a poem about lightning, so make sure you stay tuned for that!

You can find out more about Celeste--including how to get a hold of her books--at her website: https://doaksgirl.com/

If you like the show, and would like more of it, we're releasing two bonus episodes a month to our Patreon subscribers, for only $5: https://www.patreon.com/BookFight

We're joined by Matthew Vollmer, author of several books (most recently, This House is Not Your Home, 2022) and also our former grad-school classmate. We talk about our experiences at Iowa, and how our writing and teaching have evolved in the years since. Also Clarice Lispector's book The Hour of the Star, which Vollmer loves and Tom finds a little confusing.

You can find more about Matthew--and links to his work--at his website, http://matthewvollmer.com/

If you like the show, and would like more of it, we're releasing two bonus episodes a month to our Patreon subscribers, for only $5: https://www.patreon.com/BookFight